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Thanks for Coming Back
Welcome to "Thanks for Coming Back," where every episode feels like a heart-to-heart in your favorite coffee spot. Hosted by Dr. Latasha Nelson, this podcast strips back the layers of leadership to reveal the real, relatable side of guiding and growing, whether you're a seasoned pro or just starting out.
Settle in with your brew of choice as Latasha shares her world of insights and experiences, blending wisdom with warmth in conversations that matter. It’s not just her stories, though; guests from all walks of life join in to share their own tales of triumph and challenge, adding flavors of diversity and depth to the mix.
"Thanks for Coming Back" is more than just a podcast—it's a community where we all learn and grow together. It's about tackling our challenges, getting better at what we do, and embracing the leader within. So come join the conversation, and let’s make leadership a part of our daily lives.
Thanks for Coming Back
Influence and Authenticity in Leadership
🎙️ Discover Influence, Authenticity, and Leadership! 🎙️
Join me and Doris Jackson-Shazier, a leadership coaching consultant with over 20 years of experience, as we dive into her inspiring journey from corporate America to becoming an influential leadership coach. We’ll explore the transition from individual contributor to team leader, focusing on leveraging team strengths and the importance of psychological safety.
Learn how parenting skills can translate into workplace strategies, featuring insights from her upcoming book, "Raising Justice: Lessons Learned from Motherhood." We'll discuss empathy, intentional leadership, and challenging traditional norms, both at work and at home.
Align your professional life with personal purpose as Doris and I share how to balance career moves with personal fulfillment, the evolving nature of motivation, and the significance of trust-based relationships. This episode is packed with actionable advice for all leaders and parents.
👉 Listen now on iTunes, Spotify, and all major platforms!
#Leadership #Podcast #PsychologicalSafety #TeamBuilding #ProfessionalDevelopment
Welcome to today's episode of Thanks for Coming Back. I am thrilled to introduce our extraordinary guest, Doris Jackson Shazier, a seasoned leadership coaching consultant. Doris has over 20 years of experience and she's held various leadership roles, from manager to director, and she has a very palpable passion for developing others. When she transitioned out of corporate America, she honed in on what she loved the most coaching others in the ways of authentic leadership. Today, Doris will share her journey insights on fostering collaborative environments and the importance of psychological safety in both professional and personal spaces. Get ready for an inspiring conversation with the incredible Doris Jackson Shazier. All right. So, Doris, tell us about your career journey and what inspired you to become a leadership coach and consultant.
Speaker 2:Wow. So over the last 20 years, I've led others. I've been in a manager role either a manager, a district manager, a regional leader, a director leader and when I decided to step away from corporate America, I really there were elements of my job that I enjoyed, and so, as I'm building my next career, I wanted to incorporate the things that I enjoyed the most. So I don't have the bureaucracy of corporate America necessarily holding me back, but what I enjoyed the most about that infrastructure was the resources and my ability to develop other people. So when I decided that I wanted to go out on my own, I'm like you know what I'm going to focus in and hone in on what has made me successful and what I enjoy doing the most, and that's coaching others, building their leaderships toolkits and helping them to find great balance or helping them to understand how to use their leadership skills in the business and at home.
Speaker 1:Love it, love it, but I feel like we got to go back a little bit further, because I can imagine that in your 20 years there's that transition between being an individual contributor but able to influence others and then being a leader of, over, you know, thousands of team members at some point, right? Can you talk to us a little bit about what that transition looked like and what changes you had to make as you went from an IC to a people leader?
Speaker 2:So here's what's interesting is I experienced, um, my first leadership position was at 19, going on 20 years old, so I've always led other people, always let other people wasn't even. I had a esteem kind of at the later part of my career where I was an individual contributor and, to be honest with you, it was a little lonely for me because my leadership style had adapted so much to working with others, identifying and leveraging other people's strengths. I'm definitely a strength finder. I'm one that my style or approach doesn't focus on necessarily your weakness. I identify your secret sauce, I see what you're great at and then I place you and position you to leverage in your strength. It makes for an easier coaching situation.
Speaker 2:So most of my experience literally is leading people, since I have been in management since I was 19, 20 years old, but, yeah, even as a child, like I'm the older sibling, so I've been. So I'm used to having a set of people that is looking to me for direction. So I'm used to having a set of people that is looking to me for direction. So, yeah, when I had my role as an IC, I found it to be kind of isolating, and now, even as an entrepreneur, I'm really focused on building my community of clients and colleagues, because I definitely operate better as a team member.
Speaker 1:Very interesting I have had in my experience. I've been primarily an IC enroll. I've had a few leadership, direct leadership opportunities, but I've always been responsible for leading without direct authority, which I think is a skill set. Everyone should have a title, but I have to get you to see the vision to help move things forward and to want to do it.
Speaker 2:You get really good at persuasion and influence, because that's what I learned in my IC role. I thought I was good at it. I was pretty good at it with the direct reports, but I underestimated how much my title and position helped with my leverage. And when I got in that IC role it became very evident for me that my title had been helping me and I had to lean in more to my persuasiveness and influence and I know it made me a better relationship builder. Experiencing that role.
Speaker 1:Ah, relationships, the freedom of it, all right.
Speaker 2:Now.
Speaker 1:I know you have a very heavy focus on collaboration and collaborative leadership, and when you say relationships and influence, I think about how those things are connected. Can you talk about that for us a little bit?
Speaker 2:So for me, relationships, creating collaborative work environments, all of that good stuff for me it's about psychological safety, Like how do you create an environment where you let others know it's okay to make a mistake with me, it's okay to challenge my thought process and my ideas, it's okay to fail and get back up and it's safe? And I think that's important to do, not only in your personal relationships that's the foundation of great friendships but also in the workspace. It's the foundation of good collaborative work and it drives innovation. When people aren't afraid of being judged or reprimanded all the time and things like that, Now you have to have order, but when you're thinking about that psychological safety to people that feel comfortable and not in fear, it just drives innovation and it drives a collaborative work environment. So I think that's fundamentally what needs to be there in both relationships and collaborative work environments.
Speaker 1:Could not agree with you more, especially when you think about factors like resilience and adaptability, and not just for your team members. Right, I have conversations with my team all the time and I share with them that I'm going to look for right-sizing their challenges. Right, I borrowed that from Liz Wiseman. She has a book called Multipliers and it's all about what you just described amplifying someone's secret sauce, amplifying their gifts, versus focusing on the things that they may not be as strong at. But that's where looking across your team and saying, hey, I've got someone who's really strong here and someone who's really strong here, and if I amplify all of those things, we can be a well-oiled machine where everyone sees their contributions and the impact is nothing right.
Speaker 2:Exactly but.
Speaker 1:I always tell them if I don't find ways to challenge you in the right way, then I miss out on opportunities too, because you can't be the leader who's like. If it's to be, it's up to me, and you're out doing everything, or people don't weigh into your point. They don't feel safe sharing their thoughts, which can be the difference between the success between today and tomorrow, right? So I love what you just shared there. So you're a mom of four, right?
Speaker 2:Yep, I'm a four and an interesting lineup. I have an interesting lineup.
Speaker 1:Okay, you have to tell me about this.
Speaker 2:So what's unique about my parenting experience is I have a daughter that just graduated college, her bachelor's in business, super excited about her. Yes, my first to walk across that collegiate stage. And that's just her second degree, because she got her associate's degree also. But she's 19 years old. And then I have a son who's going into his senior year. So my second child is going to his senior year. And then I have another senior in the house my fifth grader graduations on Tuesday. He's going into sixth grade. And then I had a graduation this past Tuesday my baby from pre-K to kindergarten. So I have a child in kindergarten, sixth grade, 12th grade, in graduating college.
Speaker 1:Doris, you are busy right now. You're going to be busy for a while. It's for a long time.
Speaker 2:And it's just as crazy as it sounds Like I've been trying to hide it from people. They're like that and it's just as crazy as it sounds Like I don't even try to hide it from people Like that sounds crazy, it is. It is what you learn in this situation.
Speaker 1:I learned that the hard way, but not as a mom of four. I've got two. I've got one who's 26 and one who's 12. And so that's a story in and of itself. But my parents had six of us, and everyone is born in pairs right, but they're like seven to 10 years apart in those pairs. So I've got two older siblings and they're about nine to 10 years older. Then there's me and my Irish twin, so we're 11 months apart, and then, seven years younger than me, is my oldest youngest.
Speaker 2:Also they had three different sets of kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I learned what you just said. There's a bit much and you can't please everybody. I remember my older siblings saying that my parents were way too lenient on us. I remember thinking this is nothing compared to what they're doing with the other one.
Speaker 2:My kids did the exact same thing because me, as parents, we learn and grow also, and so I am a different parent, or I guess I'm a way more established parent with my five-year-old than I was with my 19-year-old, and so, yeah, they get a different side of me, but I think I only got better.
Speaker 1:And, whether the oldest recognize it or not, they are benefiting from what you learned and how you've gotten better too. I know my oldest. She's always like, wow, you're just so chill now Like you're my oldest.
Speaker 2:There was no chill. There was no chill then. I had all the energy. For that. The energy is not as high now.
Speaker 1:That's how right. So tell us, how do you integrate your experiences as a leader, as a mother and as an author into your coaching and consulting work?
Speaker 2:So for, me it requires the same core skills to do all of those roles and I think sometimes that's a miss for women. I think that we think of our home life or our family or our role as a mother as a separate kind of thing that we do, and then we walk into corporate America or walk into these executive and management and director level positions and think that it's a different part of us. We're still using the same core skills. So in my coaching business and at home, I still use influence, I use patience, I use curiosity you know, to seek to understand. I use empathy, active listening, teaching, responsibility and accountability, maintaining morale. You know those are all the same things.
Speaker 2:So I like to tell people that mommy was my first leadership title, because I learned a lot in raising my own children and becoming a mom. That helped cultivate my leadership style. Now again, there's some different outcomes in the business world. They're not my family or my children. Am I going to coddle them in certain ways? But definitely it's beneficial to them that I can exude patience and curiosity and empathy, and I learned those or I honed those skills in motherhood. Curiosity and empathy and I learned those or I honed those skills in motherhood. So I take those skills in every role as a coach and as a consultant.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Those are great characteristics for the audience to really focus in on. If you didn't write it down, write it down, you know, kind of figure out hey, where am I great at right now? What can I maybe do a little bit better? If we strive to be a little bit better every day, we'll see immense growth in a very short period of time before we know it right, definitely so. I mentioned you as an author and I know you have a book coming up very soon, raising Justice Lessons Learned from Motherhood. Can you talk to us about that and what leadership parallels you drew from your experience, from your very first role leadership role as mommy, through everything else that we can expect to see amplified in your new book?
Speaker 2:Right. So some of the things I mentioned. So each chapter has like a different competency or thing that I learned or a thing that I learned. So I talk about intuition and advocacy and leadership and transparency and the difference between mental toughness and mental health, like when is it crossing the line and this is affecting you? This is not about being mentally tough, you know. So I learned and I explore these different learnings and how they came about, and they were through experiences with my oldest child, and so Raising Justice is twofold. My daughter's name is Justice, so literally I raised Justice. But also Raising Justice is almost like a parenting style. It's me implementing this parenting style that I didn't necessarily experience. And sometimes as parents, we end up doing what we saw done to us and it just happens. And there's days I'm my grandma, like I just literally I say it, and then I hear the echo and my mind is like, oh my.
Speaker 2:God, I just sounded like my grandmother, but it was this conscious decision to raise her in a way to have the things that I wish that I had and that was a mom that I could talk to and a certain level of closeness and openness and supportiveness, and so everybody can raise justice. It's a style of parenting that I'm sharing with the world, and then I draw a lot of parallels into those same qualities. I took that into the workforce and it helped me to be successful with building team and reducing turnover and I won the awards and the top performance and the sales and the track record to back it up, and all I was doing was applying some of the same things that I applied in my home to others.
Speaker 1:Now, one parallel I heard you draw that immediately came to my mind is when I think about leaders in the workplace.
Speaker 1:A lot of times, you know the old adage of people don't leave companies they leave their managers Right. And I think about a lot of leaders in their development and their experiences, and a lot of times they're just mimicking what they've seen in the past Not that it necessarily means that was successful, but there's some level of success associated with it. Necessarily means that was successful, but there's some level of success associated with it, right? Because if you were a leader in the past, then obviously that means that worked. So this is what I should continue to do Versus what I hear you say, which is, hey, just because I experienced this in the past, I realized there were things that I wanted for myself and those are the things that I wanted to give to my daughter, and so that is where this path, this change, this divergence came from. What are your thoughts on that, especially for people aspiring to be leaders and they're like hey, I must have to do that thing over there because that's what someone else has done.
Speaker 2:I'm happy that you drew that parallel and offered me the opportunity to just elaborate on it. I think you're spot on, because it happens in the infrastructures that we work in, where we see or we experience something, and it's hard to pour from a cup that's not getting poured into. And I was fortunate enough to have some great leaders over the years, so I did have people over the years that poured in my cup and then I experienced the ones that didn't really pour in my cup at all and I had to find the in its strength to not be the type of leader that someone was being to me. And it's hard and it takes courage and it takes discipline and it really takes a high level of focus and intentionality to be able to do that. But yeah, I would encourage someone focus intentionality and stay grounded in empathy.
Speaker 2:And if you're experiencing it doesn't mean you have to do it to someone else. You can still treat people the way you wish you were treated. You can still role model from your position. You can still coach up also. So there's different ways that you can help inspire. So there's different ways that you can help inspire even those that are above you in title.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. It's the courage to challenge the norm. And I love that about some of the generations that are entering the workplace right now, because I imagine that that when you and I were younger, we probably just said okay, you know what. This is the rule, this is what I'm being told to do. Let me just go ahead and march to the orders, right? I'm going to make this the best possible outcome because I'm going to put my stamp on it, but I'm not going to question why am I doing this? How does this contribute to anything? And, if I'm being honest, I've had leaders who don't necessarily offer that background, like hey and me asking you to do this is because this is going to lead to this, this new generation. They are all about the. Tell me why I'm doing this. If you tell me, even if I still don't quite get it, I might be more inclined to do it, because I get it.
Speaker 2:They require way more information before they move, and so you have to admire it. It's this generation in that way. But, much like you described, I spent certain parts of my career. I had a reputation for being courageous. I had a reputation for challenges, status quo, but I also was one that really was ambitious and wanted to move up. So I would play the game. So I would be very subtle about that, or I'll push it, but if it seemed like it was going to do something, I'll let off the gas because I didn't want to push it too far. So I did have a reputation for just trying to play the game at some point. And then, as I got older, more authentic, more confident, and I saw my way of doing things was working it made it harder to play the game in that manner oh, there's okay, do we go there?
Speaker 1:Let's go there. So, as it got harder to play the game in that manner, what adjustments did you find yourself making? Because I imagine it fueled your transition from corporate America to the space that you're in right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I had to make some tough decisions. Corporate America to the space that you're in right now. Yeah, I had to make some tough decisions. You know it was hard to leave a director level position, a six figure earner, to now go and rebuild my career, especially with as long as I'm going to be raising children Like it's not like, oh, I got a child graduating out of college and that's not a responsibility for me anymore. No, I'm well aware, as I'm moving into this space, that I have a certain set of responsibilities for an extended period of time, and so it was a tough decision for me. I had to choose myself first.
Speaker 2:So my mental health had started to become impacted by the environment I was exposing myself to, and it's almost like putting on your own oxygen mask first. What good am I going to be to other people if I'm not being good to myself? Also, what I had to recognize is who I am and what I do are different things, and when I say that, I mean who I am are the roles that I can never take off, and what I do are the roles that people can take away from me. So, yes, I was a senior director of field leadership development, but that's just a part of what I do. I'm a mom, I'm a wife, I'm an aunt, a daughter, a godmother, a friend. Those are things that no one can take away from me.
Speaker 2:I'll always be those things, and I had to make sure that my and I would recommend this to anyone do your actions align with your ultimate goal and purpose. Do your actions align with your ultimate goal and purpose. And so I was up here and I was doing a great job and making this company a lot of money, but it wasn't in alignment with my overall purpose. So I needed to get in alignment, and so that's what it took for me. I was given an opportunity to take on a different role and I was like you know what? I'll take the package, give me the package and I'm gonna go, go and rebuild my life and align my better, align my actions with what I feel like is my goals and my purpose. And if that means that I have to start over or move back and wanted to move forward, then I'm willing to do that.
Speaker 1:You know, I love that. There were a couple of words. You had a word wrapped up in there. But I love what you just described, because even in corporate America sometimes you have to take a step back or a step to the side right. And historically we might have looked at that and said, well, if I take a step back, does that somehow reflect what I bring to the table, who I am? And you answered it no, it's not a reflection of who you are inherently. It's a reflection of, hey, this might be a growth opportunity. Is this for me? Is this aligned with who I am inherently? And what's the? I mean I again, I love how things are evolving in the workspace because some of the things we used to think back then are just not in play. I know some senior executives who are like, hey, I had to take that step back, I had to take that lateral.
Speaker 1:And then I had to take a few more laterals in order to get to where I felt like I would have the most impact and where I had the most alignment to my purpose. So I love what you just shared there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I would encourage people just not to be afraid of it, and I'm not. I would be untruthful if I said the thoughts didn't come in my head Again. I've been in this system for so long.
Speaker 2:I know what people are going to think or assume about me. Or, oh my God, she. You know, people are very surprised that when I left my company because I had a stellar career and I had been promoted four or five times and all that good stuff and on paper, I should have been happy. I'm making good money, I'm working from home, I have the flexibility, I had a company, car, you know just all those different things and I was happy. I was happy. I just wasn't in the line with my purpose and for me. I got to a place that mattered more to me.
Speaker 1:We've talked about children, right, and the word that comes to mind when I think about children is growth, and we go through several seasons in our lives.
Speaker 1:What motivated me when I was in my early twenties, starting my career, was so different by the time I hit my mid twenties, which is so different by the time I hit, and by that time I had a middle schooler and all I was really. You know, I came out of high school and had a great internship with a very prominent company and all I kept thinking was I'm going to be like the people I saw on Valley of the Dolls. Now I just aged myself, right, that's an old show, y'all go look it up. I'm going to be jet setting and I'm going to be doing all of this stuff and I'm going to make a buttload of money. None of that stuff mattered to me as much as I got older. It was really more about my experiences. It was more about how can I make sure that I'm home for the things that matter, for the things that are going to resonate for my family, so that we're not all sitting in therapy later on and talking about it Exactly.
Speaker 2:I want to raise children that don't have to heal from their childhood. Absolutely. You know we're all going to have something. They're going to find something to talk about. In my parenting style and I'm okay with it Like any other parent, I'm doing the best that I can, but with knowledge you just do better, and so there are things that I know that I'm intentionally making sure that they won't be healing from that. Absolutely. I don't know what they'll come up with, but certain things it won't be.
Speaker 1:It's about deposits, right Deposits and withdrawals. As long as I can leave you with more than what you had at the end of the day, I might've had a few withdrawals and if I've done this right, you can forgive me because you know I'm human and we can move on.
Speaker 2:Exactly, yeah, and in the Raising Justice book it really talks about that.
Speaker 2:I did a book launch recently that featured my daughter and I and you'll see more of that online. But to hear how my daughter spoke about me to the audience, it just did me such an honor and it just it filled my cup because she says I'm close to my mother, I trust her, I am proud to call her my mom, she's been there for me, she advises me. I listened to her talk about mother-daughter challenges and she was like I think communication is one of them and I appreciate that my mom will apologize to me or my mom would say hey, give me a moment and let me come back to you. You know things like that. So it was just awesome to hear her and know that she noticed that I did those little things because I didn't want to, you know, burn everything down in the moment, but I felt those emotions and tried to maintain composure and come back there. So for her to acknowledge that publicly and speak well of me, that's what honor is a parent and I want all my kids to feel that way about me.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love that. Have you heard mom remember when you used to tell me X, y, z and it used to annoy me? Well, it turns out you were right. Have you heard a lot of that she's really good about letting me know when.
Speaker 2:Just what you said, mom. You know really good about affirming when I'm told her something. But again, because our level of the trust with each other, she listens and I think sometimes it's a little different. I hear my friends talk. She listens to me because she knows and trusts that I have her best interest at heart. So if I tell her something and she's not a think on it but she's like I know you won't lead me in the wrong spot, so she's more apt to kind of go with it. But there's times that she's challenged me and she set certain boundaries like hey, this is the way that I would prefer to do it, and I say, okay, that's your way and I respect it, so that's a perfect segue then.
Speaker 1:So that's a perfect segue, then, because you've touched on psychological safety in the workplace and, like you said, even if I fail, I know that I was in a safe space to do so Can you speak to what types of things leaders can do to foster a collaborative environment?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I'll go back to the things that align with creating psychological safety. So build trust, build relationships. Don't assume that people know. Say it out loud hey, it's okay to do this, there is no dumb question. I prefer if you ask the question than to leave here and it keeps you up at night, be curious, so outwardly encouraging those type of behaviors.
Speaker 2:And I think it's important to set clear expectations. People have expectations that are in their head and then you want to hold them accountable to the expectation that's in your head. You got to have some really good communications, set clear expectations, give people the resources and the autonomy to meet those expectations and have good follow-up not micromanagement follow-up meaning you know where I am, you know how to reach me, we've established the indicators or whatever that will require my help. So if you approach this type of situation, then that's a situation you need to bring me in on. But establish those things up front proper delegation, delegate based on what people's strength. But I think doing all of those things and fostering communication is just really really key to building a collaborative workspace.
Speaker 1:If I'm an IC, I'm an individual contributor and this is not necessarily the environment I currently work in, but I think I have some sort of responsibility in helping to foster that. What do you advise someone in that position? What can I do without any direct authority to help us get there? Yeah, I think that's when you have the model.
Speaker 2:I think people do what they see. Representation matters and I think that you begin to be very intentional about treating people the way that you want them to be treated, that you want to be treated. And again, open communication, again not understanding the full totality of the environment. You know who you work with, but is there an opportunity to have a direct conversation? Are the barriers in your head meaning you feel uncomfortable doing it, or is it really an unsafe place to do it? Because I find sometimes we just think it Okay. So what were the indicators that made you believe you could have that conversation? Well, just because of their title. Well, I mean, that's not enough of an indicator.
Speaker 2:And so sometimes, especially when I'm coaching clients, I find that a lot of the limitations they have, they place them on themselves or they observe the situation that they didn't observe in full context. Maybe they saw the outcome Like, oh, I saw it happen to this person, but were you there? Do you know what that person did? Or did they say, or are you going to do exactly what they did? You know, and so it's just legitimate. They're in a toxic, unsafe environment and they've learned or seen enough to know that it's ineffective or it won't work. And again, so I would have to weigh in on that. But I would say that challenge your own belief system, try and have a direct conversation, and if you're truly, truly that unsafe thing, now I'm going to question why are you still there?
Speaker 1:Yes, what's your?
Speaker 2:exit strategy. What's your timeline? How long do you need? Why would we stay in this unsafe environment?
Speaker 1:Which will probably go back to something else, that they've built an anchor on a belief, that they've built an anchor on right. Well, the news, you know, the job reports say that. You know we're in an election year, so I might not be able to. Well, I might not earn as much if I go somewhere else.
Speaker 2:Is it worth whatever it's costing you to stay there. So, for me again, I left and I was seeing on LinkedIn how people were filling out hundreds of applications and not landing a role and all of that stuff, and it still wasn't enough to make me stay. Like anyway I'm not going to say that it's completely like it may never, ever happen. The right company, the right environment, the right circumstances. I know that I could be a high level contributor to the right type of breed, but as of now, my mindset has been around entrepreneurship, and so it's been over a year for me. But, yeah, I left in the thick of all the layoffs and all that other good stuff. But it's about alignment for me, and so that's what I would challenge that person on. Is you're enduring it? You want to stay there? Okay? So how are you going to influence it or change your environment? If you're not going to change your environment, how are you going to change your mind about the environment?
Speaker 1:Touched on around. Questioning your perception and your beliefs, especially in the moment, can be challenging, right, I know I've had to walk away from situations and come back the next day and go you know what. I guess it wasn't really as bad as it felt yesterday, right, but that's also a part of crucial conversations, right, being able to say in this moment am I hearing what I believe that I'm hearing? Is that person really speaking from the place that I believe that they're speaking from? Is it an opportunity to be curious here? Let me ask more questions. I've been known for saying it could just be me and if it is, I appreciate you just giving me an opportunity to clarify, but it sounds like you said giving me an opportunity to clarify, but it sounds like you said X, y Z.
Speaker 1:Exactly. I love that. I love that. Thank you for putting that out there. What other misconceptions about leadership have you encountered and how do you address those in your coaching?
Speaker 2:All right. So misconceptions there's a lot of things that I could go into about misconceptions. There's a lot of things that I could go into about misconceptions. I'm going to go with my top two.
Speaker 2:Leadership is a title or position. People think that I'm in a role where I'm not the boss or I'm not the manager. They associate leadership with the title or the position and it's like let's think about this different. The elements of leadership is influence and things like that. You have influence, even from your position. Just because that's your boss doesn't mean that you're a secondary leader or that you can't lead them. Leadership is what you do, is what you exert, is how you behave, but it's not a title or position. So oftentimes it's impact and it's regardless of position. So oftentimes it's impact and it's regardless of position. So I find times that that's a big misconception that I come across with leadership is that, well, I don't have this title, or I'm only this or what. Their title is that and it's like I've advised a CEO of a Fortune 500 company. You know they came in and asked me what I thought, or they saw my results and asked me how I got them. That's leadership. There it's irregardless of my title. It's about influence and impact.
Speaker 2:The other thing that I would like to call out that I think is a big misconception and something that has worked in my favor is that leaders can't be vulnerable. My favor is that leaders can't be vulnerable. I don't know why and I know why, but it's an old adage in terms of this stoic presence. Now I have to be honest with you. I do believe that leaders are like flight attendants in terms of when there's turbulence, I should be able to look at the flight attendant and know that, okay, we ain't going down because she looking like this is normal. But if I look at her and she's nervous, okay, now, this is uncomfortable for her. She's here statistically more than I am, so she knows something's wrong. So I do have that element to me that leaders need to have some level of composure, but it doesn't mean that you're not allowed to be vulnerable, because you're a leader. That's passion, that's authenticity, and so I encourage people to share a little bit of vulnerability. What's wrong with your team?
Speaker 2:knowing that you're disappointed or that you're having a bad day or that you know we could do better, or those type of things. That's authenticity, Like I think it's important to you know, grow our emotional intelligence, know how to display our emotions in a professional manner, but be authentic. And so that would be my top two misconceptions that I think it's just so important for people to just wrap their mind around differently. Leadership is not a subtitle position and leaders can be vulnerable Like yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:In today's world where transparency is so critical to everyone and so you can kind of get a sense of are they holding something back? I tell people all the time I have dreaded the age of video conferencing because, regardless of how I say it, you can see it all right here and I'm working on it. I've been working on it for years. But I feel like if I'm going to have one-on-one conversations, or even team conversations, I need to be transparent about certain things. Otherwise they're going to pick up on something not being shared, and even if I can't share it, maybe it's as simple as saying you know, I can't divulge everything, but here's what I would like to share with you. Right? I can trust someone who will at minimum tell me hey, I can't give you everything. I need you to walk in faith, and then everything else I do should be grounded in that, because if I've never let you down before, if I've been transparent with you before, if you've been able to trust that in our exchanges what I do is really for your good, you believe that I genuinely care, and that is where it is coming from, then we're probably in a solid place where you can trust me, even if I can't tell you everything, but I also think about and this kind of goes back to the collaboration piece One of the reasons I've heard recently more of that people don't share is because they question whether or not there's value in what they share, not necessarily based on title, but also based on experience.
Speaker 1:Share not necessarily based on title, but also based on experience, and I've always found that to be very interesting because I'm in the space of learning and development and some of my favorite SMEs are the people who don't know how we usually do it right, because they're the ones who are going to say so, why do we do it this way? Or well, I see how we got from this point to this point, but I don't understand the rest of this. Like there's a gap here. They're the ones because they don't. They don't know the process or how it's usually done.
Speaker 1:They can tell you those things, but someone to say I shouldn't give feedback or I shouldn't weigh in or speak up because I don't have the experience everyone else in the room has, can cost lives. I mean not to be dramatic, a story I heard recently where an astronaut they were doing like this space simulation and he had a newbie on board with him and the newbie saw something off but said this guy's been doing this for years. I'm new to this, it's probably just me. As it turns out, they get a last minute. Hey, you've got to change your course immediately because you are in a direct path of collision with someone else. And they did, and everything crisis averted.
Speaker 2:Think about what it costs us when crisis isn't averted. 1985, January 28th, 1985. And I often use this example in encouraging people to speak up with. I think it was like the old ring or whatever. And they had the research and it was a, you know, a junior level scientist who knew, knew that there was something wrong with that piece and it would not withstand the pressure. And what was it?
Speaker 2:Eight astronauts lost their lives on that day because, number one, the environment wasn't created, but that person felt comfortable speaking up. And they didn't have the courage, but they were able to find that the notes and the evidence and everything to tell them that that what happened was there, but because the environment had been created, where this person felt comfortable, challenging the people that was around it cost people their lives. So we have a real life, not only in terms of the intangible that it causes with people's lives, but then in the money that it costs for someone to not just speak up or for the right environment not being created for someone to speak up, and the credibility right Like you miss an opportunity to, even if you don't know the fact that you ask excellent questions will open doors for you.
Speaker 1:right Like I wonder why this is like this, but when you don't speak up and there's evidence that you had an opportunity to, that could almost hinder you more than just not saying anything at all.
Speaker 2:Definitely I agree Awesome.
Speaker 1:Awesome, all right. So talk to me about some challenges that leaders face, especially. We've talked about the complexity of how things used to be back in the day versus how they are now, especially post pandemic. Right, I think we are encountering some very different, even just energies in the workplace right now different, even just energies in the workplace right now. You've got some people who are trying to return home or return to work from home. You've got some companies who you know. You know they recognize the challenges that you have in your personal life that may prevent you from doing that, but then there's this cultural impact that may be happening if you don't bring people back to work and everything in between, of course. So talk to me about some common challenges that you see leaders whether again former leaders, former roles or not that they're having to navigate today.
Speaker 2:So I think what you said, my number one thing would be adapting to change, and not only just the things that the pandemic brought about with the flexibility of how we work, because now we're like in a gig economy People want to be able to pick up and put down their job when they feel like it. So they're rather DoorDash or Uber Eats, you know, because they can do it on their time when they feel like it, and they can, you know more flexibility.
Speaker 2:So that ability to adapt to change is super important. And then we have technology advances AI, chat, gpt. I don't think it's necessarily going to take away jobs, but it's going to require a different skill set, just like social media influences wasn't a job 20 years ago. Like nobody said, I'm going to be a social media influencer. I think we're going to have more data analysts and people that know how to leverage AI better. So there's a lot of change that we have to adapt to. So I think it's probably the number one challenge that we're facing in the workforce, but also managing more diverse teams.
Speaker 2:We have a whole nother generation entering the workforce who thinks a lot differently than the generation before them, and so, as a leader, them, and so as a leader, you're managing such a wide range of different people. And again, me as a young leader. I've had employees from 16 to my oldest employee was 81. And so managing completely different generations. And how do I exercise situational leadership in order to lead all of them?
Speaker 2:Decision-making under uncertainty it's another challenge. You don't have all the facts, you don't have all the information. You have to consider so many other components. How does this land social media-wise with this group of people versus this group of people. There's just so many things to consider. And so how do you move forward as a leader without all the details, especially right after the pandemic? You know the world is evolving differently, people want to work differently, and so you're having to make a lot more decisions without you know a level of predictability or evidence to kind of support it, and that's common. And then I think the other thing that is just sitting on my mind right now is balancing accountability and morale. We either know how to set the expectation and hold people to the standard, or we know how to have a good relationship with them, and it's like you know, we can have both right.
Speaker 1:That's right, and now talk about that, though, because I don't think that that was a new issue. I don't think that's a new challenge. I think I've seen that for eons, right. So what would you recommend?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so that's what I specialize in actually is teaching people how to create high accountability, high morale environments, and so, yeah, it's about how you build relationships and that you build them with good trust and proper boundaries. You have to build the type of relationship that a person understands that I'm not being offensive or demoralizing or requiring this out of you. This is a part of my job. This is a part of your job. I mean, at the end of the day, when you go to work, you're there to provide a service in exchange for compensation, and so that has to be established and respected as a part of the relationship, and we can still have a relationship, but we have to remember that we're both here to provide a service in exchange for compensation, and so it's just an element of our relationship.
Speaker 2:And I'm going to hold you accountable. We're going to schedule regular check-ins so that you don't get nervous every time I put a team's notification on your calendar. Oh my God, what does she want to talk about? No, we talk every week anyway, so this is just our standard check-in. So there's a lot of practical strategies and things that I advise people to do to create a level of comfortability and trust and predictability in their relationships. That drives that high accountability. But it protects that morale and that experience with the person.
Speaker 1:Now ask in your experience as an IC, what did that look like? Because I think that even as an individual contributor, you have to still be able to tell your partners hey, I have a responsibility and you are part of this right. My preference would be to co-elevate right, but at minimum I've got to be able to come to you for what I need. In order for me to provide you with what you need. What adjustments did you have to make without direct authority?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm telling you, it's exactly the way you described. Again, you lean more into the persuasiveness, because you don't necessarily have the authority in the same way, but you all still have the same obligation You're there to provide a service in exchange for compensation. That's the same for everybody, irregardless of title, and so all I'm trying to do is provide the services that they're asking me to provide and assist you in doing the same thing. So how do we help each other in achieving the goal for both of us? And I think sometimes, if a situation seems like, okay, we're posturing right now and this is getting weird, I bring it back down to the foundational thing hey, look, we're both here to provide a service in exchange for compensation.
Speaker 2:Like, let's dial this all the way back and maybe we have different goals and ambitions and you sit on a different seat on the bus, but we're on the same bus here. How do I help you? Help me, and then you know what do you need from me or what can I do for you. But I think it's pretty much a similar approach, because the approach is irregardless of authority in my mind, because it's about the relationship.
Speaker 1:That's right. Now. You mentioned boundaries and being able to establish them, and I've experienced this myself. You know I'm trying to balance personal boundaries and professional boundaries. What recommendations would you make towards an aspiring leader or even someone who's more seasoned but they're looking to have more impact in the space that they steward over? When it comes to leveraging boundaries to be effective as a leader? I mean especially tying back to what you just shared about hey, you've got to still hold people accountable and have proper relationships right, so what advice would you give?
Speaker 2:Again, I think it's foundational. I think when you're establishing the relationship, it really is about helping others to understand your position on the bus and understanding their position. Again, we're both on the same bus but we have different vantage points. We may have, you know, I may be getting off on a different stop than you, so we've got different goals and things like that, but we're on the same bus together and we could help each other and we could support each other.
Speaker 2:However, it's about communication, so I'm very transparent in what my goals are. Again, it almost allows me to play with my cards up a little bit. So it establishes trust and I'm not going to say that people haven't taken advantage of that style, because you're going to have the people that take advantage of your authenticity or your ability to be a truthful communicator and you have to decide whether it's worth it to you. It's just worth it to me to just be myself, but what I would say for others is high level communication, empathy towards other people's position and the courage to state yours. I'm going to say this it's a colorful statement, but I tell you I mean it and I live it. I may not be everybody's cup of tea, but I'm somebody's flavor, and so I am not concerned and caught up with being liked by everyone, and I think sometimes people are. I will be respected.
Speaker 1:I will be respectful, but you don't have to like me necessarily for us to work together and have a great relationship. It better than I do. I. I've told people like I'm not for everybody and that's fine. We can still make this happen and then we'll wish each other well. But I love the different. I may not be everybody's cup of tea, but I'm somebody's flavor. I I'm that.
Speaker 2:I'm definitely somebody's flavor and I know that. I know that I'm not everyone's cup of tea and I'm okay with that. However, I'm effective, I'm respectful, I pour into others, I love people. There was a time where I thought, oh my God, people get on my nerves and I was like that's not true.
Speaker 2:Actually, I love people. They get on my nerves, but I love people. I really do and I respect their boundaries, so I respect. If I'm not their cup of tea, that's okay. However, we're on the same bus at this moment, so how do we help each other, and our likability doesn't necessarily have to be an obstacle for us to achieve the goals that we want to achieve.
Speaker 1:And our ability to be authentic has nothing to do with doing what somebody else may be doing because it looks like it works. You have to be true to who you are. Yeah, love it All right, doris, what final thoughts or advice would you like to share with our audience, especially anyone looking to empower themselves as leaders or just looking to strengthen their family bonds?
Speaker 2:into strengthening their family bonds. I would say high accountability, high morale. It exists, it can work. You just have to balance it. So I would encourage people that if you're looking to again strengthen your family life, looking to build a relationship that you have at work, it's high accountability, high morale.
Speaker 2:So now, what I currently do on LinkedIn is I have a newsletter I started it about a month ago but it's called High Accountability, high Morale and Business and Life and I talk about those different things. I'm sharing different ways. I will be publishing a book with the same title, but I'm sharing the strategies and the things that I've used over the years to be able to build those type of safe spaces and the results that I've been able to achieve by doing so. Again, I have a 19-year-old college graduate. Again, I was with a company and promotion up into director level positions advising C-suite executives. So I have the track record to kind of substantiate that it can be done. There is a way to find that balance and it just takes intentionality in order to do it. But I would encourage you to focus on ways that you can build the accountability but also the morale at the same time.
Speaker 1:Tell the audience more about Raising Justice and when they can expect it.
Speaker 2:All right. So Raising Justice is available now on my website. It's my name DorisJacksonShaziercom, and so if you purchase now before June 27th that's part of my pre-sale event you will receive an autographed copy from me, so I'll be personally mailing those books out and signing them myself, so it's really special.
Speaker 2:And you'll have a free gift included with any pre-sale books Now. On June 27th it will publish nationwide, so it'll be available on Amazon. On June 27th it will publish nationwide, so it'll be available on Amazon, apple, google, barnes, noble. So I'm excited to share with everyone again my journey in motherhood, the different lessons I've learned and how again, mommy was my first leadership title and the things that I learned in the relationship I built with my daughter and my other children, how it transitions into the world, like everybody again can raise justice. It's just a parenting style.
Speaker 1:It's been a pleasure to have you on our show today. You've been amazing, sharing great insights, nuggets all over the place. Got to have you back because I feel like there are several topics we could dive so much deeper into and I just want to say I would love that opportunity. Yes, absolutely. I just want to say yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I just want to say thank you again. This has been amazing.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. Well. That wraps up today's episode of Thanks for Coming Back. Well, that wraps up today's episode of Thanks for Coming Back. I hope you enjoyed our conversation with Doris Jackson Shazier as much as I did. Doris shared invaluable insights on leadership, collaboration and creating psychologically safe environments that we can all implement in our own ways. If you're an aspiring leader or a current leader looking to make a bigger impact, now is the time to take action. Start by fostering trust, promoting open communication and leveraging the strengths of your team. Be sure to check out Doris's upcoming book Raising Justice Lessons Learned from Motherhood, available for pre-sale on her website dorisjacksonchaiziercom. That's S-H-A-Z-I-E-R. Pre-order before June 27th to receive a signed copy and a special gift, and don't forget to subscribe to Thanks for Coming Back so you never miss an episode. If you found today's discussion helpful, please leave us a review and share this episode with your network. Let's continue to elevate our leadership skills together. Thanks for listening and until next time, keep striving to lead with purpose and a meaningful impact.
