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Thanks for Coming Back
Welcome to "Thanks for Coming Back," where every episode feels like a heart-to-heart in your favorite coffee spot. Hosted by Dr. Latasha Nelson, this podcast strips back the layers of leadership to reveal the real, relatable side of guiding and growing, whether you're a seasoned pro or just starting out.
Settle in with your brew of choice as Latasha shares her world of insights and experiences, blending wisdom with warmth in conversations that matter. It’s not just her stories, though; guests from all walks of life join in to share their own tales of triumph and challenge, adding flavors of diversity and depth to the mix.
"Thanks for Coming Back" is more than just a podcast—it's a community where we all learn and grow together. It's about tackling our challenges, getting better at what we do, and embracing the leader within. So come join the conversation, and let’s make leadership a part of our daily lives.
Thanks for Coming Back
From Bad Boss to Effective Leader
Ready to lead more effectively? Join us as Rebecca Vickers unpacks how to shift from Bad Boss to Effective Leader by simply managing tasks to inspire and empower those around you. She explores common hurdles like over-controlling behaviors and lack of self-awareness, which can hold back even the most dedicated individuals. Rebecca provides practical tips on how to prioritize team success, adapt your approach, and effectively manage yourself to uplift your colleagues. If you're rethinking how you influence others or want to avoid being seen as "that boss," Rebecca's insights are essential.
We'll also dive into the importance of communication and delegation in your development as a leader. Rebecca discusses the benefits of adopting an entrepreneurial mindset and mastering the art of 'managing up' to enhance your relationships at all levels and position yourself as an influential figure. Learn how to clearly and professionally communicate, keep your promises, and foster a positive environment by delegating wisely and engaging in meaningful conversations. Plus, navigate the challenges of change management with Rebecca's strategies for balancing a robust structure with the flexibility needed for innovation, underscoring the importance of lifelong learning. Whether you're new to taking the lead or refining your existing influence, this episode offers actionable advice to enhance your impact wherever you contribute.
Welcome back to Thanks for Coming Back and part two of our enlightening conversation with Rebecca Vickers. In this last episode, we covered a lot of ground everything from creating order from chaos and how setting up robust systems not only sharpens our focus but also empowers our teams. We also talked about what it really means to support and motivate your team an impact play that belongs in every leader's playbook. Today we're taking a closer look at a topic that many shy away from the reality of being seen as a bad boss. It's something that might not be intentional and, honestly, could happen to the best of us. But here's the kicker Staying in that category when there's so many resources available, like this podcast designed to help you level up, will be well unfortunate, not to mention a real oversight.
Speaker 1:In this episode, rebecca's going to share how anyone can step up their leadership game and turn pitfalls into stepping stones for growth. So if you've ever wondered whether you might be that boss or you're just keen to avoid it, stick around. Rebecca's insights might just be the breakthrough you need to transform your leadership style and become the leader your team deserves. Let's get back into it Now. I can only imagine you've seen a lot of different bosses. I'm sure some have been better than others. So I just I have to ask in your experience, what's the difference, what distinguishes a bad boss from a great leader? And I'm using boss versus leader, you know.
Speaker 2:Yep, I love this question and I first want to qualify. So the difference between a boss just to distill it down good or bad, can often be that they were made such by title or promotion, being in the right place at the right time. Maybe and potentially, this is where I think the bad boss can come in they were not trained to be a leader, to be a manager, and they were promoted prematurely and so they didn't get the tools and the resources they needed from their boss before stepping into that position, not to say to qualify that statement to that you can't grow in a role and learn at the same time. I certainly have. But there are times when people, I think, fall into that category because they're not really positioned well or maybe their default isn't to naturally lead, and so it's a struggle for them, and maybe they don't have that self-awareness I'll get to that in a moment because I think self-awareness is key to know where you can grow as a leader. And so I think a bad boss the ones that I've seen and heard about and experienced they oftentimes are looking for that control. They're looking for the quick fix without really listening to the problem. They might have more of that dictatorial style, just do as I say, not really having a conversation about it. And you might need a leader like that in certain situations if they're actually leading, keeping in mind right. We can have the understanding that perhaps in the military, for example, you need someone that's just going to be direct, straight to the point, give you orders you follow and you take their leadership and their guidance. But really a bad boss is someone who's not listening, who's not really strategizing, maybe flying by the seat of their pants sometimes too, but really looking for the control and not really thinking about the team as a whole. And so I think you know a lot of us might think of that boss as sort of individual, not a team player, not that leader who's looking to support the team. Conversely, that leader is looking to support the team. You might have a different style of leadership. You might need to apply a different style depending on the team or the person that you're coaching or that you're interacting with. That you're coaching or that you're interacting with, but they're really someone who's looking out for the greater growth of the team.
Speaker 2:I think about the transition from being an individual in the workplace to a leader in the workplace, and I think it comes down to someone who knows how to work well and has created achievements for themselves, and then you need to take it into the understanding that you're creating success for your team. So it no longer becomes about your individual achievements but it becomes about the greater good of the team's success. And that's where a bad boss might take the credit for themselves. They might disregard feedback from a team or not even seek it out or receive it, whereas a leader can help the team grow by accepting that feedback, being responsive, prioritizing the team's needs, and so that's where I see the major distinctions.
Speaker 2:But the other distinction for anyone listening who doesn't have a title I don't think you have to have one. You don't need to be promoted to a leader. You don't need to have that leadership title because you can be a leader in a project. You can be a leader of yourself. Pete Drucker, the very famous management mind and marketing mind, talks about managing yourself, and I think a good leader knows how to manage themselves first so they can manage others better and so practicing your leadership skills. People can be influenced by you in a team. People can be encouraged by you if you are motivational and support others. You don't just have to wait for someone to say congratulations, you're a leader, now go off and lead. And the best leaders I have seen have not waited. They've been proactive, they've stepped up, they've had a voice and they shared what they've known to help improve again that greater good. And I think that's where we get back to that entrepreneurial idea of how are you helping the company, the team, grow?
Speaker 1:You know that is a whole episode in and of itself, going from individual contributor to people leader and that mindset shift that has to occur in order for you to be effective. But I wholeheartedly agree with you. It is not about waiting for permission to be a leader. John Maxwell defines leadership as influence. Right, and I'm sure in your experience you've seen a lot of leaders by title who are not able to influence either their peers or even their teams. Right, it's that. Do it because I told you to do it, because I'm the boss, versus do it because this is how it benefits you, this is how it benefits the team, this is how it benefits everyone else that we're stewarding over. It's a good thing, even that partnering and solutioning I look at that as co-elevation.
Speaker 1:When I do great, you do great, and you can do that in an individual contributor role very easily through your partnerships. When you're partnering cross-functionally, you're not necessarily able to tell someone hey, do this because I said to do it. You may not be able to get someone on the West Coast to jump on a call with you at five o'clock in the morning their turn because you've got a title. You might come out better saying you know what? How can I best serve you so that we're able to do this and co-elevate and make the best of whatever it is that we're partnering on? So I really appreciate you clarifying what a bad boss may look like, but that doesn't mean that, just because you may lack experience, that there is an opportunity to grow within that space and that, as an individual contributor, you still have the ability to lead within the space that you're in and influence Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Speaking of our aspiring leaders, what advice would you give them, especially if they're looking to thrive in today's workspace? It's pretty dynamic right now. It's almost like what you thought you knew, especially pre-pandemic, may not apply anymore. So what advice would you give someone aspiring into leadership, whether it's formal or informal, if they're looking to thrive today?
Speaker 2:So I think that's a great question, because, you mentioned, the workspace looks a little bit different, right, and there's a huge benefit, I think, to being remote and that we can have the greater comforts of home and less time commuting, and there are more ways to communicate. But there are also more ways to ignore each other too. Yeah, the more doing that. But you know that's right. Oh, no, not at all, and so I think it makes it really challenging. And so, going back to that entrepreneurship and entrepreneurial mindset, I like to reference the idea of managing up. Looking to be a leader in a space more formally or officially, then I would say learn how to manage those who are in that position over you, because I can almost guarantee you they're going to A appreciate it immensely and B start to see you as that leader, and that's where you don't have to wait right. And so what does it mean to manage up? And I think it means that you're delivering that relationship with your boss, your manager, your supervisor, whoever that person is, where you're bringing them the communication that they need to do their job better, or you're taking off from their plate what they probably don't really need to be doing but they're still hanging on to and you're lightening their load so they can do the higher level responsibilities, tasks. You can learn from them and that also will help further the relationship to. You know, keeping in mind that as leaders, we're certainly not perfect. We can forget things, we can miss things all the time. So, doing it in a way that's very gentle and professional and you're looking after them, that'll also give you practice looking after a team too, and then along those same lines. So communication, communication, communication. You have to communicate and I think this is one of the hardest things that people have to learn, especially if you're not naturally inclined to it.
Speaker 2:I was actually having a conversation with a professor of an MBA program and he was saying you know, I think communication should be an aspect of every MBA program because it's so important as leaders, to learn how to frame what you're saying, to deliver to your audience, ie your team, your company, and to be able to say it in a way that's clear and concise and understood too right. Or, going back to Simon Sinek, starting with your why, you have to be able to understand your why and then communicate it to others in a clear and concise way, and communicating in a way that is still professional but direct and gives the who, what, where, when, why and how something is going to be done. Because if you can deliver all the information that someone needs to know, then you're not gatekeeping anything. You're being a team player, you're working with people and you're saying, hey, this is how I can help you with this info that you need to do your job better. And then, along those same lines, I think it is important that you learn how to communicate tasks and what you're doing, but, more important, that you follow through, and follow through with quality as well. Stealing from Shakespeare, you have to suit the action to the word, the word to the action. So I think that aligns with what you were saying earlier. You have to do what you say you're going to do and you need to do it well. So don't rush, think through, but also have some sort of alacrity, some sort of speed to it, so that you're helping move things along at a steady pace. And then, when it comes to leading a team, I think you can practice that in small groups, you can practice that in projects with other people how are you delivering that information? You can practice it if you're pitching to clients, if your job has you speaking to clients? How are you leading your clients and giving them the best experience they can possibly have? Because those are different ways that your leadership team can see you as a leader and see you stretching and growing yourself.
Speaker 2:Right now, I'm coaching a wonderful group of mentees through a volunteer program with Women in Digital Marketing and Design Network, and I'm just so amazed by how smart and how clever they are and how they really want to do more in their companies and they want to be more, and I would hope that that's the same for all of us. But I want leaders to understand that people want to be given responsibility, they want to be challenged in a healthy way and they want to have that opportunity. And, as a leader, it can be really hard for us to hold on to the work that we have and to grow from that. So I think we, as leaders, need to learn how to delegate the tasks that really shouldn't be on our plate anymore and we need to give other people who are coming up behind us those opportunities to learn and to grow with our guidance and our coaching, and so creating that opportunity for people also create opportunity, as a leader, for your leaders to practice in a safe space.
Speaker 2:I didn't always have that practice time and I also. I did have the benefit of seeing other leaders successfully or maybe unsuccessfully have difficult conversations. But learn how to have those difficult conversations. I'm taking my leadership team through Difficult Conversations by Douglas Stone and I think it's a wonderful book to get the conversation started on having those conversations, because you're going to be met with those as a leader and it's important not to avoid them. It's important to learn how to give feedback. It's important to be direct with people and really clear about what you're observing in their performance, in their work, in their behavior, so that you can have a better working relationship with them. It's not easy. It's definitely not easy and it's going to take time and practice and you're always going to be hit with a surprising conversation. But the leaders out there need to prep their team for that and they need to model having those difficult conversations too.
Speaker 1:To me that goes back to what you shared about systems and being able to clarify exactly what's supposed to happen, who's responsible and accountable, being able to convey that so back to the communication piece clearly and succinctly enough for people to understand how their contributions affect the overall team success, and then being able to establish enough of a relationship to safely have that conversation right. I've got a team member who recently received some feedback and took it like a champ, and I recognize that not only was that reflective of her professional maturity and being able to receive the feedback, but it was also a reflection of our relationship knowing and understanding that I'm here because I care.
Speaker 2:I have to take the easy route.
Speaker 1:I have to also take a less efficient route and just do it myself, which goes back to the delegation piece. Right, if I'm not delegating, I'm not creating capacity for myself, and so I'm not growing myself as a leader. I'm also not growing my team.
Speaker 2:It's that savior complex right.
Speaker 1:So there's the savior complex, and I think to your point earlier about being an individual contributor and transitioning into that space. If we're being honest, there should be a level of accountability and, in a lot of ways, a spotlight on you, right? Because whether you're the one doing the work or your team is doing the work, the work has to be done and it needs to be done well. And so when that doesn't happen, I think there's almost a fear factor there that, well, if it's to be, it's got to be me. It doesn't be the case, right?
Speaker 1:In fact, I measure my capabilities as a leader on how my team is doing. If they're thriving, if I take time off and I hear nothing from anyone, that is generally a good thing. That means that they are equipped and enabled to do the things that they are required to do, that they're expected to do. Even if there's some feedback that does come my way, I still feel like that's a success, because we're all clear that, hey, maybe something didn't happen, but we're not afraid to have that conversation. Yes, so it goes a long way to learn to delegate, not just for your team members' development, but also for your own creative capacity for yourself, so that you can continue to grow and thrive as well. I love that idea, yeah, but I have to ask because that's really hard to do. Right it is. It's a balance that has to be struck between the structure and systems in place, but also needing to quickly adjust and be agile and adaptable when needed.
Speaker 2:Change management. It's really tough, so tough, and I've not heard anyone ever say that you can put a time frame on it, exactly predictably. So I think having at least a structure and a plan is still important there, but you do have to allow for that flexibility and adaptability, like you're saying right, and I don't believe in the balance so much as the ebb and the flow. It's still a balance, but understanding the balance is not going to be 50-50. I'm going to put it that way. So there are going to be some more challenging times, some smoother times that you can navigate through, but it does come down to priorities. And what's the priority during whatever that changes that you're going through, whatever that those rocky choppy waters are, you need to know what your priorities are as a business, as a team, so that you can help navigate the team through that, towards the end objective and through those goals. You have to know what are your non-negotiables to. What are the things we still have to do consistently, day in, day out? Where can we be a little bit more flexible? Where do we have room for improvement? Where do we need to change? And that's where I think innovation can come from too. You know, sometimes it can happen because we're so single minded and maybe narrow focused and we're not thinking beyond the framework that we've structured for ourselves, for ourselves, so getting some additional input. Or I like to flip a situation around and look at it from a completely different point of view, because you might be thinking this is the only way, this is the only path, this is how it has to be done. Well, what if you did it in the opposite way, or the diagonal way, or the side, whatever that different way is? Try to look at things from different angles, and that's in the initial stages of your change management. But I think even change management has its own structure too, right? So plan, plan out your priorities, know the impact that it's going to have on your team. I think that's really number one in the planning.
Speaker 2:When we are going through a change as a company, I want to make sure that I'm thinking through how are people going to perceive this? How are they going to feel about it? Potentially, how can I help communicate it in a way that doesn't induce fear? I've been through many different situations, especially in theater, maybe because we're prone to the dramatic, where a situation is presented and it heightens everyone's anxiety. Big no-no, I think, for any kind of company, but I've seen it in companies too.
Speaker 2:So how you're expressing the change and what's about to come, but you have to let people know what's going to come. You don't want your team surprised. It's easy for an individual to perhaps make a plan, pick up on the change that they need and implement right away. A lot harder for a team, no matter how big the size. And then you've got to execute Right. So making sure you're communicating constantly throughout the way, trying to get ahead of that communication, ahead of anyone's questions, is equally important.
Speaker 2:And then what's the scope, what's the potential time and what's the benefit of the change? Because I don't think anybody maybe somebody really truly loves change, but it can be really scary for us, right? And the only constant is change. So how are we preparing our teams for the larger changes and the smaller changes along the way? And then you have to measure the change and the impact of it, whether it's quantifiable or qualitative. You need to have some sort of way of measuring it, because you could go through a change and it have very little impact on moving the needle forward for your business, and so I think you need to think about that initial impact and you need to think about and measure the impact overall as you go through that change too.
Speaker 1:Completely agree. Change management is so challenging because it really does require everything we've talked about today the relationships, the communication, the ability to overcome resistance right being connected enough to understand that there may be some resistance there that you're going to have to work through. You can't dodge it right. You've got to be able to have those courageous conversations in order to really implement a plan that is likely to lead to the type of change and adoption that you'd like to see, and so I couldn't agree with you more that that agility part comes with, I think, curiosity, right. What's the worst that could happen if I don't have this piece of information? What could I do despite not having this information? Or, if this is by parameter, how much do I really need to adjust in this situation? Is there still a path to success in our current circumstances, right? Just curiosity never killed a cat that I know of. I know that's an old saying, I don't know where it comes from.
Speaker 2:I was just thinking about that and I was thinking maybe it killed a cat.
Speaker 1:I was just thinking about that and I was thinking maybe it killed a cat, but it grew a company Because, you're right, right, someone thrived and we all survived, except for the cat, I don't know. This has been so good. So, rebecca, I have to ask you what final thoughts or advice would you like to share with our audience, especially anyone who's looking to really grow and excel in leadership, and I would love it if you would let our audience know how to stay connected with all of the goodness that you have to share. I would hate for us to miss out on any future opportunities you can share with us.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you. Well, it really goes back to curiosity, I think. Actually and being a lifelong learner, I know that phrase is kind of cliched now, but it's true you need to keep learning. In marketing, the playing field is leveled every single day, with a thousand AI platforms coming out in a week to Instagram's algorithms changing and our understanding of how people are consuming content shifts, trends change. And our understanding of how people are consuming content shifts, trends change, come and go right. It's all changing, ever changing. So the playing field is always leveled.
Speaker 2:You need to stay on top of that to the best of your ability. You don't have to know everything, be kind to yourself, but you do need to keep exercising your mind and practicing your role, your job, practicing your. You know what your skill set is on a regular basis, because it goes by so fast, right, and you're going to miss it if you don't stay in touch and in tune with it. So I think that goes for marketing. Same thing for a leader too, though right, you need to have that constant, steady improvement and practice that understanding of self-management. First, because you are leading the way. You know. Quoting John Maxwell earlier, you have to know the way. Go away and show the way to others Right. So making sure that you are setting that example. But ultimately, how are you showing up for your people matters most. So how are you there to support your team and to be there for the people that are looking up to you?
Speaker 1:All right, everybody. That's a wrap on today's episode. From bad boss to effective leader. We've just spent some quality time with Rebecca digging into what really separates a so-so boss from truly great leaders. She's given us the lowdown on everything from spotting those not-so-great boss habits to steps on how to be a better leader and really inspire your team. What really stood out for you today? Which of Rebecca's tips are you eager to try out? Whether it's shaking up how you manage or tweaking how you engage your team, I'm excited to hear how you put these ideas into action. If you love the insights from today and you're all into leveling up your leadership skills, make sure to stick around for more episodes. And hey, let's keep the conversation going. Hit us up on social media with stories and insights. We love seeing how you're taking these ideas and running with them. Thanks so much for tuning in. Keep leading with heart, keep supporting your teams and remember each step forward is shaping you into the leader you're meant to be. See you next time and thanks for coming back.
