Thanks for Coming Back
Welcome to "Thanks for Coming Back," where every episode feels like a heart-to-heart in your favorite coffee spot. Hosted by Dr. Latasha Nelson, this podcast strips back the layers of leadership to reveal the real, relatable side of guiding and growing, whether you're a seasoned pro or just starting out.
Settle in with your brew of choice as Latasha shares her world of insights and experiences, blending wisdom with warmth in conversations that matter. It’s not just her stories, though; guests from all walks of life join in to share their own tales of triumph and challenge, adding flavors of diversity and depth to the mix.
"Thanks for Coming Back" is more than just a podcast—it's a community where we all learn and grow together. It's about tackling our challenges, getting better at what we do, and embracing the leader within. So come join the conversation, and let’s make leadership a part of our daily lives.
Thanks for Coming Back
Boundaries, Values & Integrity in Leadership
Ever wondered how to set clear boundaries and lead with integrity? Tune into our latest episode where Dr. Latasha Nelson and guest Venchele Saint Dic dive into the art of leadership with authenticity. They discuss the importance of transparent communication and staying true to your values, ensuring you lead effectively and honestly. Hear how being clear about your own limits helps maintain integrity, as well as how understanding backgrounds can help you manage expectations better.
Learn key differences between direct and indirect communication, how to adapt to various situations, and the importance of self-reflection in leadership. Plus, discover why believing in yourself and being genuine are crucial in both your professional and personal lives.
Join us for an episode packed with actionable tips that will help you build stronger connections and enhance your leadership style. Don’t forget to subscribe for more insightful conversations!
Hi everybody, Welcome back to. Thanks for Coming Back. I'm your host, Dr LaTosha Nelson. Today we're going to dive into some fresh insights from a thought-provoking discussion I had with Vinchelle Sandeep. We're exploring practical leadership through real stories and shared experiences. So, without further ado, let's get started To kick things off.
Speaker 1:I want to share something personal about setting boundaries and what this looks like. When it comes to communicating what I can or can't support as a leader or a colleague, Michelle and I also talk about the impact of one-sided attempts to meet needs. Let's listen in. I tell people all the time I'm not for everybody, and so when people say I'd love to be friends with you, I usually say well, let me tell you what that looks like. Right, Because I know what I bring and I know what I want to bring to all of my relationships. I'm very committed to that. You may say that sounds cool. I would love to receive that. I'm not willing to give that, and for me personally, that means our relationship can only be what it can be. So I have to be willing, as a leader, to acknowledge whether or not I can realistically meet your needs, and if I can't, I have to let you go and flourish and thrive somewhere else.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I think people can only share with you and give to you what they've been given and what they have learned. For example, living in the Caribbean, some people believed in spanking their children. I know for me, like I didn't get spanked, like I was a good kid, I stayed in my lane. I probably was spanked once, but it never happened again because I learned my lesson that first time. Now we call that child abuse, but in the Caribbean we called it something different, we called it spanking.
Speaker 2:And so you have to understand people's contextual frameworks. You have to understand their history. You have to also understand what are some of the trauma that they're carrying, because sometimes, like when we meet people, we're not just meeting their qualities, their flaws, and there are some people who will try to make it work, fake it till they make it, and saying to you that they are going to adapt their approach and finding compromises when necessary. And even in those circumstances, you may still be unhappy, you may still not have your needs met, and that's why we need to have an honest conversation on what we can provide to people and what we cannot, because even when I think about accommodating someone's needs, it almost feels forced. And if it feels forced, then you're going to have to work twice as hard to keep this up, and is that really showing up as our authentic selves?
Speaker 1:I would like to think that if both sides can find a compromise someplace towards the middle where maybe I'm not getting everything that I ideally would like but I'm getting something that works for me and vice versa that that's a relationship builder right. That's someplace that we can at least build from. As we got deeper into the conversation, vinchelle spoke about the importance of managing expectations effectively in any relationship. Operating as a sole proprietor at Pathway Coach Writing, she speaks to the importance of defining your values as a leader and setting the right expectations in order to maintain your integrity. Just earlier the same day, vinshell had a meeting with a client and spoke to why she communicated both her capabilities and her limitations with them. Let's pick up there.
Speaker 2:And that's when you have to also define your values. Some people will take your money while knowing very well that they cannot give you what you want. It was very important to say, hey, this is my individual capacity, this is a sole proprietorship business. I'm the one helping you out. If it comes to a point where you need more than what I can give, I'm going to give you the best that I can do. I'm not going to leave you out in the cold, because I know the impact of transitions, but you cannot go beyond your individual capacity, especially if it's going to affect your mental health, especially when it's going to be misaligned with your values, with your timeframe. You know this is going to work or is this going to be a short-term relationship? I will tell you.
Speaker 2:For example, for book proposals, I typically tell people, because I no longer provide packages, I charge by the hour. I no longer allow people to make, for example, 10 appointments. I'm like no, when I had the package, I would be able to finish everything within that timeline, or even before. Like, if there were 10 sessions, I would finish everything by the fourth session, something like that, because I work very quickly, but then, at the same time, now that I charge by the hour. I don't let people, for example, book 10 sessions Because I'm thinking to myself you don't know how those first three sessions are going to go. We may not need 10 sessions and especially if you have a contract where there's no refund because of all the work that you're doing for this individual.
Speaker 2:It's important to set the tone, to set the boundaries earlier on. It's because I respect myself, it's out of integrity. I follow ethical standards and procedures and I want to make sure that you pay only for what you need and not more than that. And I know this is not going to resonate for many people. There's some people who may be like well, you know, I went as many coaching sessions.
Speaker 2:But to me, if I was in that person's shoes and let's just say I had just lost my job, the conversation is a little bit different. My job, the conversation is a little bit different. Regardless of whether or not you're in that position or not, I look at people the way I would want someone to treat me and I'm like okay, why am I going to promote 10 sessions to you when, deep down, I know you only need three or four? You know what I'm saying. Because, like, and then also it's because I'm coming from a place of abundance, from a mindset of abundance and not a mindset of lack. I know what I bring to the table, I know my craft, I know the money will come, but it has to come in a way that makes sense, right? Right, it has. It has to come from a place of personal integrity, and that's my way of demonstrating integrity in my actions and decisions and upholding my ethical standards and principles that reflect my values consistently.
Speaker 1:And I completely appreciate everything that you just shared, because integrity is everything, and integrity being not just what people can see, but what you're doing when people aren't able to see. Do you lack integrity? Are you saying one thing and it kind of goes back to what we talked about before? Are you saying one thing and doing another? Are you just showing up in a particular way because that's what looks right, versus that is who you genuinely and authentically are? And I love it also because it reminds me that you can't say yes to everything.
Speaker 2:No you can't.
Speaker 1:As leaders, absolutely. Let's say, you booked those 10 sessions. What are you missing that? Or where should you be that God intended you to be, but you're not there because you said hey, I'm going to go ahead and take these bookings. You have to leave yourself the space and capacity to do so.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and then also, too, my approach of piecemealing. It is also my way to discern if the person is even serious about this process, because, again, there's their legality issues involved with it too. That's the reason why I believe in contracts. As long as money is involved, a contract is needed so that both parties know like this is what I'm going to be held liable for, this is what I'm responsible for. I think that, for me, I'm very I'm grounded in my values. I believe in equity and fairness and, like I said earlier, I'm not going to take people's money willy nilly, because I know the value of a dollar and, depending on where you are, there's some people right now who just received an email saying that they've been laid off.
Speaker 2:Life happens, and I think that's where we need to show each other grace and understand that we don't know everything that we don't know. When you put out content, people will interpret it differently. Let me try to look at it from your perspective, while at the same time, not losing my objectivity, because that's what you're paying me for, for objectivity and then understanding that people learn differently. Your process is going to look different from someone else's process in terms of retaining, storing information. We got to get to a point as a society where we can meet people where they are, and that's what I try to do with my clients, which is directly related with how I treat people in my life.
Speaker 1:Because I think what you're saying here is critical to tie it back to authentic leadership. Because I think what you're saying here is critical to tie it back to authentic leadership because you know there's the how do I communicate boldly and authentically? Right, and you touched on your Caribbean roots and your preference for direct communication, both giving and receiving no-transcript and there was a fire in the building.
Speaker 2:indirect communication might not necessarily work in this situation. I might have to be the one to say, listen, there's a fire, right now we need to leave the building versus someone who's indirect, who might say, well, I smell something. Well, what exactly are you smelling? Are you smelling food? Are you smelling like what you see what I'm saying Like? There needs to be an assessment, and I think that's part of leadership. You always have to evaluate your responses. You also have to evaluate how you showing up and whether or not the way you showing up is effective for that moment. So if I was in a different meeting where we were discussing something where there's no clear consensus, I may get away with indirect communication because maybe people are not ready to make a decision. We're still in the ideation process and we need to brainstorm some ideas. No problem with that. It's all about understanding the context that you end and then also reading the room that's a big one Some people have and then also reading the room. That's a big one. Some people have a hard time reading the room. It's like they have to just spew anything that they're thinking about.
Speaker 2:I believe in my one minute rule. I have one minute before I say something. I have to ask myself is this going to be helpful, is this going to be kind, is this going to have a positive impact? And if I find myself saying no to those three questions, then, or is it germane to the discussion? That's another thing too. If I find myself saying no to these four questions, I will say, okay, I don't need to speak right now. It doesn't mean that the message you have to share is not important, but it's need to speak right now. It doesn't mean that the message you have to share is not important, but it's just not the right time.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I think sometimes we get stepped on. If I don't say something right now, I'll miss my opportunity to say anything at all. Do you have any tactics or tips that you can share with the audience for how to circle back?
Speaker 2:So that's a very good question. I was thinking about all of these Facebook groups, and people don't really care about the question. They care about the comments, and the comments can be really funny. But I think, in terms of circling back, usually I would wait until the end, like maybe five to 10 minutes before the end of a meeting, and then I could say something along the lines that this may be off tangent and then say what my question was, and then I also make sure that people understand that it's related to something that we had discussed before, not germane to this particular discussion.
Speaker 2:But is this something that we can table back in the next meeting or place it on the agenda? And then that gives people an opportunity to say, well, no, we may not be able to have it as an agenda item, but can we have an offline conversation about this? But again, I think it's towards the very end. Don't do something like that in the beginning of the meeting, when you know that we already have a set agenda items for us to discuss. I mean, there's no foolproof technique, if you will, because it's going to depend on your personality, how assertive or not assertive that you are. It's going to depend on your communication style and then also what you prioritize, and so for me, it may be important for me to bring this up in the meeting towards the end, but for someone else, it may be that they prefer to just talk to the direct supervisor and say, hey, this is something I was thinking about. What are your thoughts?
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I'd really like for the audience to understand that in the moment it's okay if you have to take time to process. You don't have to have all the answers in the moment. Just like you don't have to respond because there's the expectation of a response. You can say let me think on that Circle back. In that way, you don't have to have all the answers in the moment, but you also don't have to sit on it. I love your question, the ones that you process in your head. Is this going to add any value? Is this going to be positive? Right. But if it took you a little bit longer to answer those questions for yourself before the conversation continued on, that's okay. You don't have to sit on it if, ultimately, your answers are yes to everything.
Speaker 1:Now you and I were talking earlier and I love this because I want to give the audience a further peek into our conversation. We were talking about titles. You were awesome enough to ask me what I preferred to be referred to and you know we had a good laugh about like listen, there are reasons for us pursuing these advanced degrees and for this particular audience, it is critical to understand that we are talking about title-free leadership. It is critical to understand that we are talking about title-free leadership, right? So whether you have a title, and wherever that title happens to come from or you don't, there are methods to the madness and reasons for why we do things and how this all plays out. So I would love for you to share what you were sharing with me earlier about your mindset on how you prefer to be referred to.
Speaker 2:No, I think for me, as someone who's pursuing a doctorate degree and I don't have this title come forward to me just yet I am a firm believer that we're much more than our titles and positions. Even speaking to leadership, you can lead from anywhere, because there are many people right now who are leading, but they're leading behind the scenes and you don't know their names and you've probably never worked with them. But these people are just as essential in the system as the person who's getting the spotlight. So I want to bring that to your audience's attention, because I think sometimes there's this misconception that if I don't have a fancy title, that somehow I'm not a leader, and that's not the case. That's why you have people who call themselves servant leaders. These people are not in the limelight, but they are supporting the person who has to make that final decision or provide the final oversight. It's all a question of the system that you work in and what does the system prioritize. So I just want to make sure that wherever you sit right now, wherever you are right now, you do have value. You do have worth, and a title is not going to confer that to you. It is your belief in yourself, your belief in what you have to bring to the table and then having the serenity to know the difference. You know what I mean Knowing your shortcomings and your limitations and putting one foot in front of the other to become the better version of yourself.
Speaker 2:You know, once I graduate, if we're talking about friends, if we're talking about mentors, family members who are not going to provide me any grant funding, I don't want them calling me Dr, so-and-so. You know they knew me. Call me by my legal government name, call me by my nickname, if you have a nickname for me. But there's no need for it because, in my humble opinion, the title, that DRPH, that PhD title, has its utility in specific environments for a specific purpose. But if I'm not going to be seeking funding, if I'm not going to get published with these individuals, no, you can call me by my, you can call me Vinshell, and that's okay, because I'm not attached to the title itself and I'm also not, you know, I guess I could argue that I'm also not attached to the outcome that this title is going to confer to me.
Speaker 2:Not many people go and get a terminal degree. Actually, in certain fields of study you don't need a terminal degree, and that's where I also have to reflect on whether or not we tend to be judgmental of those who don't have our degrees. That's another superiority complex. You know that we may not have enough time to talk about, but it's something to think about. You know, because even in the dating scene because right now I'm single as a Pringle yes, that's what we're going to call it for, it is single as a Pringle and I'm in this dating pool and I'm noticing, even for me, I have to be very mindful to look beyond people's degrees, because you can have a man or a woman with multiple degrees as a thermometer, but they are not approachable, they have poor interpersonal skills, they have no vision, no mission, and so that's where you have to rely on your values.
Speaker 2:It's like what are the non-negotiables. So I know, for me, I want to be equally yoked to someone who's going somewhere, who has a direction, but do I know if this person, whoever this person is going to be, has like a terminal degree? No, and does a person actually need to have a terminal degree? No, it's all about the person, the caliber of their character and what they bring to the table. And I think another thing, too that we touched upon earlier is that I was telling you that people can only give you what they've been exposed to, and so, for me, I'm very pragmatic, I'm not going to ask for something that I don't already have. Just like as a leader, I always say to myself, as an aspiring leader, I'm not going to tell my colleagues, and I'm being very careful not to use the word subordinate, because I don't believe in that nonsense. You're my colleague, you're my equal right. It just so happens that I'm the one who is writing your performance appraisal.
Speaker 1:I have a different set of responsibilities than you do, but I cannot do anything without you.
Speaker 2:So that's the reason why we have to be mindful of the judgment calls that we're making. I'm very pragmatic in the sense of even in the dating pool, sometimes you'll have people say that this person has to make six figures. Sis, I know how tough it is out there to even pay for your mortgage, to even pay for your electricity bills. The inflation rate is not coming down anytime soon, but then, at the same time, rate is not coming down anytime soon, but then at the same time, I'm realistic. If I'm not making six figures and then I'm saying on a list that I need that person to make six figures, why do I need them to have something that I myself cannot even give to myself? So what ends up happening here? It's almost like we're attracting people to come and pay our bills.
Speaker 1:That reminds me of another lyric that's near and dear to me, which is you attract what's similar.
Speaker 2:So I need to know who's singing that.
Speaker 1:Are you showing up saying, hey, I want full transparency. Are you transparent? I want to be able to trust you. Are you trustworthy? I want people to do their jobs. Do you do your job?
Speaker 2:What is your code of conduct? What is your compass? Because there's some people out there who are not, and, again, like that's why I said my mind is so expensive, I there's some people out there who are not, and, again, that's why I said my mind is so expensive. I have people in my life who are Christians, people who are not, people who are still trying to figure this out, because you get to see different perspectives. It's almost like I am intentional in not living in a box, right, even as a scholar, we always have to be mindful of the frameworks we are using in our lives. Is it an island in and of itself, or is there room for someone to come in and to say, hey, I know you're using this current framework. This is applicable for certain situations. And, at the same time, have you looked into this, like pointing out some of the blind spots? They always tell you if frameworks were perfect, then there wouldn't be a need to add to the knowledge base.
Speaker 2:That's right, that's the reason why we always have to question everything. And to your point, yes, it's important to think about if you are in the dating pool market and, instead of focusing on these laundry lists, it's like you got to know if the person is honest. If you value honesty, does the person value communication? Because to me, communication is like a non-negotiable. It's the pillar, it's the foundation. Actually, we talked about this earlier. When it comes to leadership, that's how you know, at least for me from my framework. I think that's where we can start building trust and mutual respect, and I cannot judge someone if I don't have enough information. You're not giving me anything to react to, which means I have to make enough of an investment to try to get that information.
Speaker 2:What does that investment look like? And then that's where people will go into. Well, you know, it takes six months. It takes no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2:Sometimes the universe has a beautiful way of showing to you the beginning and an end to relationships, because if you're too attached to the outcome, controlling the tempo and the fluency of that relationship, you may be missing out on the red flags, you may be missing out on the beauty of it, because you're infusing yourself, you're intervening and then wonder 17 years later, how come you didn't see this? Well, that's because you were in the way, and so that's why I always ask myself every day am I in my own way? Because if I'm not, everything is going to flow beautifully. But if I am, there will be resistance, and resistance sometimes is a signal to the mind that you're resisting something. You're resisting something that you should be doing, and I try not to be in my way. At least I feel like I've made progress. Only my dad would be able to comment on that. No, I get it, but I think it's part of that too.
Speaker 1:No, I get it, but I think it's part of that too. Sometimes we get in our own way by trying to. I've been told before that I might do the most, and for me it's more of I lean in where I need to lean in, and I think that's critical to any role I lean in, and then I find a way for me to hand off what needs to be handed off so I can go back to playing my position.
Speaker 2:The power of delegation. That's another key trait for any leader to have. In my case, if I was to move from where I am to a managerial or leadership position, I have to let go of position I have to let go of, and it's easier said than done. But I have to let go of the executor portion of myself a little bit, because if I am out here trying to do everyone else's work, then what are they being paid to do then? And I think also it's a lack of disrespect when you're trying to take on everybody's job it's almost like a disrespect for your colleagues' expertise and for your colleagues' time and effort.
Speaker 1:But I think a lot of times too, we forget that people learn differently. And if I lean in and do everything for you, what opportunities am I leaving, not only for you to learn and grow, but also for myself to create capacity to learn and grow something? If you hold on to everything, you are not able to receive anything. If I try to hand you something and your hand is open, it's easier for you to receive what I'm trying to put in your hand. But if I'm trying to hand you something and your hand is clenched, it's balled up to hold on to whatever it is you already have, then you can't receive. There's no room for me to squeeze what I'm trying to give to you in there. What is one thing you would leave with the audience if they don't take anything else away from today's conversation? What?
Speaker 2:do you want to leave them with? Whether you're sitting right now trying to understand your mission and your vision statement, I want your audience to think about the importance of alignment. This is an advice that I'm telling myself as well, because everything I've shared on your podcast today, I've been through it, I've lived through it and I'm still living through it. I have been toying with the idea of alignment and, in seasons and I think that's very important and maybe this resonate with my fellow people who have type A personalities like me not going to be able to get through everything in a given season. Because I'm the person who one of my top strengths is discipline, and usually, with that strength, it's almost like you want to always finish what you start, but sometimes in certain seasons, you don't get to end what you started. It may be that you plant a seed and someone else comes in and finishes the work for you.
Speaker 2:People got to let go of their attachment to the outcome. Let the outcome of your life unfold the way that it needs to. Your role is really just to control what is within your control and then the rest of it, to leave things to pan out the way that it needs to, because, once again, when you're in the way of your own happiness, in your own way to finding your mission and your vision statement, you're making it much harder than it needs to be, you know. And then also going back to the value. That's where you have to understand what your value system is Trust the process and allowing the opportunities to be attracted to you.
Speaker 2:I always say that to myself, like I'm walking towards my tribe and then my tribe is walking towards me. That's a beautiful way of saying to the universe that I trust in your divine timing. Way of saying to the universe that I trust in your divine timing, whether you believe or not, like this concept is universal. Allow the things, the people and the situations to come to you and continue to walk the path so that you can meet them at the right time. That's what I would leave with the audience today.
Speaker 1:Thanks for joining us for today's exploration of leadership through the lens of real life experiences with Vinchelle Sandeep. As we close, I challenge you to consider how you can apply today's insights to enhance your leadership style. Share your thoughts and strategies with us and let's continue to grow together. Don't forget to subscribe for more insights and until next time, keep leading, keep learning. And thanks for coming back.
